tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7976081.post6038916567729755859..comments2024-03-15T10:36:55.634+02:00Comments on Bat Aliyah: When Separate Is HurtfulUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7976081.post-47870063581071961952010-10-28T19:55:18.399+02:002010-10-28T19:55:18.399+02:00I am with you on this one, so much! I have no prob...I am with you on this one, so much! I have no problem with shuls and mechitzot (although there are shuls I prefer not to go to because I don't like the placement, but in principle I accept the need for it). I will not go to a concert or a shiur anymore if I know that it will entail not sitting with my husband. There are plenty of places where I can feel comfortable. As to kiddush, that is a problem because in that situation I am usually there for a specific simcha and one doesn't want to make a scene. In the place where I regularly daven it is stand up for all (and even if it were sit down, it wouldn't be separate).Risa Tzoharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05012097234847651866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7976081.post-27559546340058841172010-10-27T18:14:01.564+02:002010-10-27T18:14:01.564+02:00I agree 100% with the comments expressed by you, R...I agree 100% with the comments expressed by you, Rivkah, and by the other women as well.<br />My only disagreement is with Moriah's statement that "it diminishes us." Actually it dimishes the men who will go along with the seating for women. In my ideal world no man would attend a concert or talk where his wife has no chance to take part intellectually and auditorially [is that a word?].<br />barbaraBarbara R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00758147825460727361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7976081.post-57279543894718726522010-10-26T19:53:30.802+02:002010-10-26T19:53:30.802+02:00You took my thoughts and put them into eloquent wo...You took my thoughts and put them into eloquent words. <br /><br />BTW, I was at that concert, too. I resented the poor seating for women also, plus the hard cookies and pretzels. Who on earth wants to hear someone munch crunchy food at a concert? I unerstand budgetary limits, but it would have been better to serve quiet popcorn or something equaly affordable.<br /><br />And gosh, people! Turn off your cell phones at concerts, funerals, and public presentations of any kind. We came for the event, not to eavesdrop on your private life details.Yocheved Golanihttp://www.yochevedgolani.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7976081.post-41951399836321345532010-10-26T05:28:13.521+02:002010-10-26T05:28:13.521+02:00I agree. It's a halacha problem of derech ere...I agree. It's a halacha problem of derech eretz treating women as garbage. I was horrified in a RBS shul on Shabbat at the kiddush to see that the men sat at long tables. Young boys were admonished to stand at the male children's tables and women had no seating option at all, just some round tables to stand at.<br /><br />But it's the fault of the women in those communities for accepting it and not complaining.<br /><br />In a different shul in my community there was a Bar Mitzvah kiddush. Four long tables with chairs, identically filled with food were set up. Men were told to stay away from the third so that women could get equal seats. Men there always sit down before women waiting while the women taking longer to make it in from the Ezrat Nashim.Batyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09402874037427009327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7976081.post-16163551071880561052010-10-22T18:35:25.510+02:002010-10-22T18:35:25.510+02:00At first I didn't know where you were going wi...At first I didn't know where you were going with this but after reading, I'm totally in agreement. Some discussion has to be made as to the accommodations made for women. We're not asking to sit on their side or to abolish separate seating. But when we are created equal, pay the same amount and arrive early, we should have a comfortable seat where we don't have to feel as if we have been banished to the nether worlds or strain to look over the heads of men. It's not right, it's disrespectful and it diminishes us.Moriahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10031303390387367887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7976081.post-1414810723756879832010-10-22T17:06:12.807+02:002010-10-22T17:06:12.807+02:00I am SO MUCH in agreement with you. But I have an...I am SO MUCH in agreement with you. But I have another more pressing reason to agree: I wear hearing aids. I read lips. If I am relegated to a seat in the back, far from the speaker, behind a mechitza, then FORGET IT! I will NOT be able to hear. However, I am NOT your docile accepting woman either. If I am going to an event, and I suspect there will be separate seating, I usually contact an organizer of the event BEFORE it happens, BEFORE it is set up and I request that is be set up in such a way as to accommodate my need. I always request SIDE BY SIDE seating with the mechitza going down the middle. I always request an UNOBSTRUCTED view of the speaker. If they cannot or will not accommodate me, not only will I not attend, but I will write publicly about the shanda they are perpetuating by not being inclusive. I believe that women can make this happen even without having the "excuse" of my disability. But you need to contact the organizers AHEAD of time and make them AWARE. YOu stated that you cannot see the speaker from the back. The fact of the matter is that ALL of us lipread to a certain extent. And ALL of us lose some of our hearing as we get older. And if we are relegated to the back, behind a mechitza, then we will NOT be able to hear. So you need to advocate for this -- but not AT the event. BEFORE it happens. Do not assume it will be accessible or inclusive. Call, ask, advise, request and finally demand. And ask your friends to do the same.L'Shmoahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04300194862465850283noreply@blogger.com